Them declaring virtual currency related activities illegal, it seems like crypto exchanges are stopping new account openings. We know where the wind is blowing over there uh. How does that affect the regulatory conversation internationally? Knowing that a big selling point for crypto is supposed to be the breaking down of cross borders, i think its interesting for those who are waking up to crypto this year and looking at the china news and being a little concerned for those of us, whove been In this place for a while, this is not necessarily anything new. I think what is interesting is this. Maybe, like the fourth time, china has tried to crack down on crypto um versus one time they he said no more. Facebook and facebook didnt exist before right. This speak, i mean didnt exist after that. This speaks to the power of decentralized networks that finance credit crackdown on this before we will see what happens next, but im guessing given the power of bitcoin and other decentralized currencies and the ecosystems that this is going to continue to grow. And then regulators are going to be looking at investors, theyre going to be looking at consumers and think that this is something that increasingly people want to participate. The genie was led out of the bottle along and i think regulators look for. This may seem economic opportunity for those persons, but the very least understand that this is an important, important economic development um and for all the chinas out there, theres countries like el salvador that are really embracing digital currencies, um, and so i think, theres a lot theres.

A lot that we can learn um by regular regulators taking different approaches, but ultimately this is not quite right, its not so joe. On the regulatory story, i mean how much water do international developments in china or even el salvador. Basically, anything outside of the united states way on what gary gensler is trying to do in the sec offices in dc. Is it mostly insulated, or is there some level of not necessarily international cooperation but just kind of countries, keeping an eye on what the other is doing to make sure that there isnt any sort of arbitrage that could exist legally between different countries? Well, two thoughts on that. I mean you know i i dont think it much matters to the sec uh. What approach a foreign regulator is is taking, in other words, um. You know i i dont think of a foreign regulators, um uh. You know acceptance and welcoming of of digital asset investments or barring digital asset investments has much of an influence on the sec. That said, i think that activity outside of the united states, you know, definitely has an impact on the way our regulators think about it. You know um, you know when when chair gensler is talking about uh digital assets, sort of being the wild wild west, i think hes talking about activity, offshore and and so get to the extent that there are are um. You know blow ups offshore, i mean go back a few years ago, mount cox or something like that.

Um uh. You know, to the extent that there are big uh shocks, offshore um, that that have an impact on on the on pricing or on uh investor confidence. In the asset, i think those sorts of offshore activities very much weigh on the secs decision making, but i i dont think the you know the relative posture of the foreign regulators on you know all that all that persuasive to the sec for good or for evil. So i want to direct this question to dave. So if going back to the specificity of the bitcoin etf, this is kind of a little bit more of an insulated conversation as opposed to people watching what china is doing per se. Um whats your messaging to the sec, as they kind of weigh through whether or not they want to have a bitcoin futures product or a bitcoin spot etf. What are you advocating for? Do you feel, like theyve, been soliciting the industry in trying to get comment as they try to sort through these things? We we think that the sec should really take an equal approach to allowing investors to choose which type of bitcoin exposure in the formula of an etf that they would like, and so were strongly advocating that a bitcoin futures, etf and a spot bitcoin or a physical Bitcoin, its a little silly to say physical bitcoin, but the physical bitcoin etf be brought to market. At the same time, to allow the opportunity for investors to you know, choose their own exposure that meets their own investment needs and their own investment thesis as a quick.

Follow up to that i mean who is the target demo for a bitcoin etf, not just from grayscale but across the board. We know there are many other applications out there is it people who are scared to to get a crypto wallet, because theyre intimidated by um? The extra steps that might be involved – it might be easier just to open up the portfolio. You already have and jump into an etf, or is it a lot of people who are already in the crypto space that just want to load up on new products? Who is the target demo for a product like that if it does get approved someday? I i think the answer to that question is yes, i think its anyone and anybody who is interested in utilizing um an etf for you know a segment of their their exposure to bitcoin. I think that, historically again utilizing you know gld as an example. It was, you know, fairly simple, to wear gold um as a means of your investment portfolio. Until you know an etf came along and it became you know increasingly more simple and reliable to to have gold exposure in your investment portfolio, and i think this is a similar case. Its very similar that you know bitcoin can be a little bit challenging for many investors to determine how to seek exposure, store it reliably, um and and have have a component of their investment portfolio in. In that you know, asset class.

I think the etf opens up um, you know the pool to a much larger um. You know investment universe and also, you know add simplicity to you, know the asset class being um. You know pieced into to somebodys portfolio, uh roomie last question here, not to say that this is a zero sum gain, but would it be bad on balance for crypto, wallets or crypto exchanges for these traditional etf products that get all the benefit of price movements in Bitcoin without actually having to be in a coinbase wallet, for example um. Or do you think that, because the pie is growing, you know ultimately the space as a whole can benefit. I definitely would say the latter any new ways for investors to gain exposure and understanding of the wonderful economic opportunities that visual assets provide. Lets have all those lets have all those ways. As someone whos been in this space um for eight nine years now, its amazing the type of innovation that weve seen, but i have to admit its only been really appreciated by this really small sliver of people and for those who know just the great opportunities that Can exist in crypto assets, broadly not just with fts um, but even going things like non fungible tokens now whats happening in creative economies, not just financial institutions. Its really important for consumers everywhere have to again understand this, but to participate in it.