I service, uh pension funds and institutions with index we. We are 100 compliant 100 of the time, and my first purchase was not in our operating company. I just bought some ethereum and some bitcoin in a wallet myself back in 2017 and one day just talked about it in the in on. You know on television on business press and my compliance officer called me up. While i was still in the green room saying. Are you out of your mind? Are you out of your mind? You know we cannot have this dialogue and because were going to get a call and sure enough. We did and whats changed is the regulatory environment, because i dont have the option to be non compliant. I dont even have that at all, but slowly and surely in other jurisdictions: first, switzerland, germany, france, australia, england, canada, which has allowed uh etfs now with with uh ethereum and with bitcoin. So i changed when the regulator changed and im very interested in krypton. Now, as an asset class and in my world lets say, lets say: youre running a a billion dollar mandate, which is a typical mutual fund or etf or whatever, and generally, if youre compliant with your own compliance department, theyll theres, 11 sectors in the s youre allowed To go up to 20 in one sector and up to 5 in any one name, thats generally how it works. I argue today that crypto is the 12th sector of the s p thats.

What it is it doesnt mean i have to have everything in bitcoin and i dont want to have every coin. I want to have a portfolio of crypto coin chain. You know tokens whatever is compliant and whats going to happen here and what what we need to do and why im so happy. We have these dialogues in these conferences. Think about the typical institution every night at 401 they mark to market every position. They have the internal compliance department sees it. How much leverage is used, what the positions are. Is it within mandate not over five percent whatever it is, then their external auditors come in on a weekly or quarterly or annual basis and sign those auditing statements? Then they issue that report to the regulator. We dont have that infrastructure in crypto right theres on this stage, theres two guys trying to do it. Sam and ftx and jeremy here at uh with circle and im, definitely involved with both of them, because i want to be getting that, but it took me months just to get my first purchase done with on circle with my own compliance department. Barking at me, like a dog, saying: no, no, no, we cant do this and im saying we got to do it. We got to get there, we have to figure it out, and my auditor and the regulated reports being put out and its working same with sam. I want to build a portfolio in fts.

You know, because its big enough that i can be compliant its im, the and im saying everybody on this. If we solve this theres trillions of dollars coming into this in the 12 sector of the s p thats, what its going to be so thats our job, we got to solve for compliance its boring, but it really matters. So what is your prediction for? Where we will be 10 years from now in the crypto space since its going to change everything, let me tell you one of the reasons that ill make it short and sweet lets say a traditional mandate such as i want to go long. Europe im going to buy 50 stocks, i have to buy swiss francs euro base stocks and british pounds because i want to trade them on their domestic in between me and that transaction is whats called the bain of the earth, the fx trader, the currency trader, who Clips me every time i buy and sell adds zero value, zero value and sucks friction out of the system and has my entire adult life as ive treated. I cant wait until we solve this problem and give them a new career shining shoes because they add no value whatsoever. This is where d5 can take us on just one use case, but its a multi billion dollar one, and i want to be alive – to have a regulator domestically. Allow me a payment system to a swiss franc back and forth.

If i want to trade it 50 times a day with zero, fx traders thats my mission in life to help them find a real job. Um kevin tell us a little bit about wonderfuy and how you see a map for bringing d5 from this uh sort of early stage to something where a consumer can actually go and get a loan or do some financial service without well. What i hope that wonderful becomes and im very proud of it? The genesis of it is that its its a use case in our operating company about 18 months ago, we reduced our exposure to commercial real estate and it generated a lot of cash and we went to our cash desk and said: what can we do? On short duration – and they said 20 basis points 21 basis points inflation is sent. So that was the first time i said, wait a minute. This isnt and we started to look at platforms like ftx and circle to try and solve for that thats. What got me into stable coins because we started to explore that, but if youre, a consumer and youre 18 years old and youre making zero in your bank of whatever account – and you want to actually get some yield that keeps pace with inflation, you cant do uh Its not easy to set yourself up unless youre really out there in the crypto community, wonderfuy is going to attempt – and i think its going to do a great job to really simplify this.

For anybody an app based product, you download it. You ach x dollars into your account. It writes the contracts for you. It generates the 10.99 for compliance. It does everything you have to do to stay compliant, even as a regular individual being taxed in whatever jurisdiction, youre using and thats the beginning of it very fortunate. I took it public a couple of weeks ago and now its it was well received. Its one of the very first public defy consumer platforms in the world, its in canada, where the regulator is very accommodating. It will soon be in germany and we will continue to do it around the world and then you know have the different case. Different use cases for it, im very interested in nfts, for example, but not every nft. Im, investing in nfts for high end watches theres, a community of people out there that have billions of dollars tied up in watches, theyre all insane im, one of and we want to be able to have a way to authenticate our inventory of of ones. We own with the maker approving it. I want the wonderful app to also be able to allow people to easily own those nfts without knowing anything about. You know how to set up a wallet or anything else, its attempting to simplify it. Now, im very fortunate. I have a very large social media following im. Getting a lot of uh. You know feedback from our base.

Josh richards whos, a phenom on tick tock is an investor as well as sam. I think he supports democratization of this, and we uh were very excited about where this is going, but its really about simplifying it and making it really easy. I mean were all in tuned and excited about crypto, but its not easy to use and its nearly impossible to be compliant. You cannot afford not to disclose your capital gains and your income if any to the tax man. I dont care if youre, 18 or 84. im the compliant guy thats. I live in that world. Saying: okay, how do we get the forms out? How do we get the 1099s? How do we make sure these people never get in trouble, thats the value kevin? Do you have any thoughts on the coinbase needs less about regulator, the regulators yeah, you know um. I would make this comment somehow. Over the last i dont know two years um the popular press positioned the crypto community as an adversary to regulators globally and thats. Simply not true and its very stupid, because probably some large percentage of the constituency in this room is somehow tied to financial institutions one way or another, and we have not even tapped its so nascent theres. So many institutions that dont even play in this space, although they want to and the primary reason, is their compliance departments and the tone of that relationship between the crypto community and the regulator.

And every week we hear another case of somebody in you know in a position of of of uh power. Lets call it that thats running a large uh, crypto uh company, striking out at the regular really bad like there is zero upside, because the the regulator wants to solve for this, because this and ill say it again its going to be the 12th sector. The s p theres no question about it, its not going away, and the demand is huge. The tone should be that of accommodating their concerns ill. Give you a case study this nft investment im making in watches. Is it a security or is it a piece of art i cant go forward till its resolved. I cant just throw it out there and start trading it all over the place, not knowing that outcome, and so i im willing to reach out uh as an advocate to that one. Little sliver of nfts and say to the regulator, give me guidance, lets work together and if it is security, tell me im good im good with it. I will treat it that way. Im not fighting you on it. Just give me the rules, so i can play football. You cant play football without the rules and thats where were at here and the upside to solving this problem is trillions of dollars of assets that pour into this. You want to see bitcoin at a hundred thousand dollars. You got to let the regulator determine what terms theyll, allow it to go into an etf.

Is that simple look what happened in canada? They got a billion dollars demand in a matter of hours in just the first bitcoin product and it wasnt, even institutional. It was just simply retail saying: oh, must be safe, i can buy it and put it in my my account online and the regulator said its okay. So my thing is as a as a community. We have to form a lobby voice and say we are here to serve and protect.

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