So lets get right into it. I mean theres so much to talk about and you are a guy who likes to talk just like me. Weve talked a few times recently. I mean lets start with. Why crypto i mean youre such a collector. There theres really so many things youre known for, but when did you catch the crypto bug which fair to say you now have kind of a full fledged case. When did it first cross your desk – and you said, okay im all in on this theres a gentleman by the name of aaron battalion uh was one of the co founders of living, social hes, a vc really strong, cto and in a hotel room at south by Southwest in 2015 or 14, i think 14. Actually now thinking about the email i found recently uh, he and others explained bitcoin and they were – and i was it was like so like outer space. I was so confident in my ability of understanding consumer technology that i really even struggled with like man. Why does this doesnt even click at all, and i kind of dismissed it as because i dont love finance. I dont love financial arbitrage. I dont really understand basic financial concepts, so i kind of sat literally the next year at south by again, because we used to jam and do this thing they he brought up ethereum hes like remember last year, we talked about this now look at this and that One clicked because i understood the developers on top of it at that point, i picked up on a little bit more, so it was really then i bought i bought a bunch of eth for like six sense, you know, and i was like okay.

This is something thats intriguing. Let me put it over here and keep an eye on it. Crypto kitties came out the next year that caught my attention, but i didnt go deep, but i was aware that something had happened where people collected something digital and then it was last summer when i sat down fred wilson, very successful vc reached out and connected me To roham founder of dapper labs, and he showed me what nba top shot was going to be in the fall and that really caught my attention and i was like okay. This is starting to get really interesting, but i was navigating. Vayner x drew covid and i was busier than ever 15 hours a day operating my company, so i said in the winter during the holidays last december, ill really do homework on this ill spend 50 hours ill, really go there top shot exploded in september. I missed my window to go crazy. There, then kevin rose the founder of, really the face of web 2.0 before social popped said something in a conversation with me in december of were talking about x, men, comics and jordan, rookies and hes. Like do you have a crypto punk and i was like whats that and that led me down a huge path which culminated with in early january me saying: oh, my god, this is here, stood up. I know, im off screen right now stood up and said. Oh, my god, the same way i did in 1994, when i saw the internet and the same way that i decided that i had to go from being a wine retailer to a content, social media executor, because this youtube twitter thing im.

Seeing on the face of what i saw on friendster and myspace was going to change the internet, so this was the third moment and it was january when i had my eureka so its interesting. I hadnt heard you say before that. You know you first heard about bitcoin didnt really get it or it didnt really click. Then it was ethereum. Now i have to ask: do you think of yourself as an ethereum, i might say maxi thats a term in the industry. Ethereum maximalists, they say forget bitcoin. All the potential for business applications is ethereum or have you now gone back and do you also own bitcoin? I bought bitcoin back then so that did really well um uh, no im a im, a big believer in and im, i think the worst one of the worst characteristics in the crypto landscape. Right now is people buying things and then all of their opinions are grounded. In their own self financial interests, thats how you have a bad reputation, thats how you are not historically correct. This is going to be a game of, and i back to december, how i use it. I cant wait to go very deep into solana, this december holiday season, to understand what i think in comparison to immutable x and layer, two versus eth mainnet. No, i think its insane to think this is a zero sum game. I think that there will be many platforms. Probably i have a much better understanding of the human psychology around nfts than i do around the financial aspect of coins.

So i dont, as you probably know, because i know you watch the space carefully. I dont talk a lot about bitcoin or the alternative currencies, because i really dont understand that game. I very much understand why people wear nikes rolexes by mercedes benz, communication, human behavior and thats. Why im so very focused on nfts, because i think they represent social communication in a way that other things come natural to me and thats, where my focus is well and really now crypto punks, arguably becoming some might say, board apes. I mean pick your collection. The example of those highest – you know tier in the nft world, but thats going to keep changing. I mean yeah, and i think some like my bet is that what i bet on, because i bought a bunch of crypto punks and i believe it even more now, watching this year, play out some things will be tiffanys, like locked and loaded for hundreds of years X copy, the artist shows all the nuances of potentially becoming a warhol or a banksy, or a pollock, so somebodys going to win that game board ape v, friends: cool cats. I think a lot of those brands are going to play the brand game. So supreme is hot for seven years, but its hard to be hot for 50 years right, so theres going to be a classics and theres going to be the hop brand and theres a lot to think through and im spending a lot of time on it lets Talk about v friends, you mentioned thats, your own collection launched pretty recently, and this is a series of hand drawings that you did yourself.

They are characters that have alliterative names and each one represents a kind of concept, whether its in the workplace in daily life – and here we are its – only been what barely a couple months since they launched christies, has done a show with v friends, theyve sold for Tons of money, what do you say to the many skeptics out there theres already enough nft skeptics, who you know they say there? I i own it. I right clicked and i saved it now – i own the nft, no and then even within the nft world. If there are certain nft believers, they might be skeptics about your specific collection. They look at the art, they say this. Is it christies? What do you say to those folks, nothing, you know im not overtly and thats, not audacious its. I dont really understand the concept of trying to convince people to see the world the way you see it, which, as you know, makes me an anomaly because thats where the world is in a high passion right now convincing i try to stay in conviction. I know that theres plenty of people that think im walt disney and i think theres people that think im a snake oil salesman. My plan is to execute and let the market and the truth win, and so i dont say anything im actually incredibly empathetic to people that dont think my stuffs right look. I mean the first time we met, you wrote an article thats titled is garyvee for real.

Yes, so im so im, but im im empathetic to it. I understand i have. I have a personality trait that you know for many people, especially in a quick snippet in an instagram post or a linkedin post, can really throw one off im. Empathetic im, also incredibly aware of who i am and what i plan to do, and my plan with v friends is to make patient panda as famous as pikachu. It is to make you know, empathy elephant as famous as scooby doo and either im gon na have the talent to do it or im not, but that is what im up to and if im successful. Well then, the nfts and the art that sold the christies was a steal. If im not successful. Well, then it will be beanie. Babies, theres a variable difference between it, and so i i plan on not ruining my reputation with be friends, and so i say nothing to them. Lets ask the nft skeptic question differently, forget just your own collection, but there are a lot of people out there who still cant really wrap their minds around the nft boom in general. Yeah and you say, look theyre non fungible tokens. These are tokens theyre, like cryptocurrencies, but theyre, not currencies but theyre on blockchain, and you can point to this and say see i own this now someone else can share it. They could tweet out a screenshot of it fine, but they dont own it only you own.

It and can move it and still its just. They hit a wall. What do you say to people im sure youve had friends say: wait a minute dude! I just dont get this stuff. Well, through my friends i usually say remember when you were wrong about social media. Remember when you were wrong about the internet. Remember when you told me you would never trade in your blackberry for an iphone. I tell them all the things that weve done for the last 20 years, where they said no, and i said maybe and theyve, been unbelievably wrong and have had to conform to the way the world worked out. Thats. What i said to my friends, what do i say to people that im randomly interacting with the same thing that i answered my own collection on when people youve brought up twice so its obviously struck a chord with you and many others in this space? I can just right click it. I can go outside right now and take a picture of this hotel and say its mine. I could many people do take a photo with a car like a lamborghini and try to make the assumption that its theirs. Who would do that? Plenty of people do wear fake rolexes? I understand the concept. Look. Weve had 25 years of an internet where people dont own things digitally. We have a new invention, its called a blockchain, where people do own things, digitally every person thats watching this right now that is lucky enough to be alive in 15 years, will own multiple things digitally the end, and this behavior has been going on.

People bought sheep on farmville and facebook a decade ago, everybody who, by the way, the winning yeah meta. Thank you the winning argument, by the way, over a cocktail. Is it and usually at this point i have no patience for this conversation in like i want to get to other topics, but every acquaintance and friend wants to talk to me about it because its a wild topic, i basically within the first five minutes, ask them If their child has bought roblox or minecraft or fortnite skins, the answer is yes, and the argument or debate or conversation ends pretty much within the first four to five minutes. Our inherent need as human beings as animals to communicate with each other is extraordinary. Everybody im looking at right now and behind the camera, is literally wearing the clothes theyre wearing as a subconscious way to communicate to the world. The haircut we everything we do is to communicate with each other as we inherently live, more digital forget about the metaverse ready player, one we live in the metaverse. Now people are in their screens constantly. Why? Just i had somebody whos like obsessed with their personal brand like on nfts, and i asked them why they wanted a blue check. Mark thats not real, but of course, its real, its status, its communication, and so you know this is going to play out the same way that everybody said the internet was a fad heres where its really interesting.

This is a boring combo right now, oh its! Not not you personally, the macro, the conversations about to get very interesting when we hit an nft winter, because theres way too much short term greed and supply and demand issues and when the whole market, crashes and everybody says see, i mean i cant wait, which has Already happened in a mini sense, twice and everyone says see: nfts are dead, nfts are dead, theres gon na be a real one. I think, based on what im seeing and yeah who finance is gon na write. Our nft is a fad question mark and the journal and the times and everybodys gon na write the article and thats when its gon na be interesting, because the person on the other side is going to be like gary. Look, you look. The punks are now worth 30 000.. They were 800 000 and im gon na say here. Look at this chart on yahoo finance that shows you amazon stock and look what happened in 2000 march april when the whole internet craze crashed. Yes, everything got caught up in that undercurrent because, yes, greed, short term financial interest, overvalued everything short term behavior overvalued everything it got washed, and this was the time to buy amazon and ebay because those were real companies. I do believe firmly that 98 of the nft projects right nows values will be less than that when its all said and done, the problem is the two percent are going to be so much more extraordinarily high.

That one is required to do the homework, to see the opportunity well and when you say that you do think a kind of nft winter is coming and you talk about the prices for some of these weve been focused on these nfts. That are, you know. Either you share them: theyre crypto, punks, theyre, board, apes, theyre for social status online or their artworks, but now were seeing a ton of other use cases, and i want to make sure i ask you: what do you think nfts will be used for eventually you know Some see them as a pass to an event youre having a v friends conference or you have to own a v friends, nft others think its going to be your login for some places. Your proof of pass that you went to something was the sky. The limit here i mean: what do you think nfts will be used for beyond just buying and sharing them and flipping them every contract, all of them buying a car buying a home, its its a smart contract that is confirmed and accepted and transparent. It is the holy grail for humans, its just that were the fortunate humans that are here when its being invented, it will be the mundane in 80 years. I think its gon na be used for everything i would be flabbergasted. I dont like to make these kind of predictions because i could be wrong and i dont want to clip it and make fun of myself, but i would be stunned if not the majority of sporting event and concerts are nfts, not just qr codes and paper tickets.

In 15 years i would be flabbergasted and if you happen to go in 15 years to an nba game and your ticket is an nft and the zion lebron. Whoever of the day does something spectacular, youre literally in a place where that is an asset and youre selling it. As you walk out of the arena, people are going to start actually going to do things just for the nft, with the chance that something will happen were were collateralizing so much of our society, its going to be incredibly fascinating. Once people start interacting with nfts in the scenario that i just painted similar to whats happening with qr codes right now, qr codes have become incredibly important in marketing because because of kovid, most restaurants are now forcing us now. The average 60 year old knows how to use a qr code with their iphone, which will now translate into other behaviors of the qr code once that happens with nfts. Well so thats a perfect segue to what i want to make sure to ask, which is: when will that happen? Weve been talking about convincing skeptics what about onboarding people to something that still, admittedly, has a lot of friction. I mean well, you got to go to an exchange. You got to buy some eath, then you got to use your metamask or your chrome browser wallet or rainbow, and you got to pay with eth on a different marketplace. Then you got to know where it said.

Yeah i mean nerd a lot of people its just. They say this is too much its all going to happen in the background. Soon look im, just not passionate about it, meaning i dont back to the convincing thing im, not in a rush to get everybody to do this. I will continue to talk about what i believe will happen, but will the tech get easier to use? Of course i mean that has to yeah, i mean im sure thats, a leading question, of course thats what happens before andreessen created netscape navigator? It was virtually impossible for any normal human being to get on the internet, like people are very bad at history. Theyre like this is too complicated. Im like today, im like what about. In 36 months, people are impatient people stink at history. People dont understand pattern, recognition, people understand the actual human behavior graph people, people, people people. This is why there are consistent people that win in these times its because theyre, curious and theyre, humble enough to put in the work with the off chance that its not worth their time for every time that i went deep on social or deep on web one Or now deep on this theres been many times that ive gone down a path internet of things ar the first time that they were too early, that the 50 hours didnt result in immediate opportunities and thats. What you have to do, and most people are just inherently insecure to waste their valuable time, thats, not quite valuable and theyre, more comfortable, saying no to things like this and thats just the way it is gary lets end on this.

We only have time for one more weve been so focused on nfts youve really gone all in on them, but what else in crypto or in the crypto investing space interests you right now. Are you into d5 protocols? Are you thinking about? You know different uses of other blockchains. What are you excited about beyond just the nft boom? Nothing im, not im very aware its happening. My brother is my friends. Are i only like communication and commerce and collect like? I have a very specific thing i like and im good at and im comfortable with. I have never had passion around currency, even it in the macro. I think so much of my professional success is predicated on my relationship with actual money, and so i am aware of those things. But when you ask me the question into what im interested in or excited about the answer is nothing so does that mean to follow up on that youre, not advising people to buy crypto im, not people theyre, asking people, you hold some credit ready, youre, not out There im not advising anybody to buy an nft mom, could give a like im talking about my observations from a very selfless and selfish point of view, selfless that i believe people will benefit if they do their 50 hours of homework off. The spark of this excitement selfish because im going to clip all these clips in nine years and be like told you right, yeah and i like saying, do your homework.

I tell people the same thing yeah. This is a real heres. What im scared about its just like the? If this was 1995, i would be sitting here and saying the internets going to win and guess what i would have been right. What im petrified about is if this was 1997, and i said the internets gon na win and somebody bought a hundred thousand dollars worth of stock. They would have lost their face so thats. What im saying here, nfts are going to be here for the rest of everybodys life and its going to get more meaningful, not less. The buying an 18 000 llama with a taco in its mouth from an anonymous founder is high risk good. Keep that in mind. Everyone gary thank you so much gary vaynerchuk always wanted to talk to you.