Samsung welcome thanks, deirdre its great to be back its great to have you um and also i should mention to our viewers out there. We do have the live chat. So please write in tweet us on the youtube channel uh. Let us know what youre thinking, if you have any questions or comments or if you just want to say hi to samsung um. One thing i love samsung is that youre always willing to talk to us. No matter where bitcoin is, if its at its peak at its low, so where are we right now did the last weekend catch even you off guard with bitcoin going below 18k um, i would have to say i didnt expect it would go that low, but uh. It is not impossible, so bitcoin does have wild swings. It goes both ways. It can go down a lot and it go up a lot too, and this happens to be this weekend. We saw it go down a lot, but volatility is a lifeblood of markets, so its not necessarily a bad thing. Volatility is the lifeguard lifeblood of markets, but this is extreme volatility, and what do you make of whats happening sentiment? I mean it feels like some people are almost relishing and saying i told you so um and as a proponent, and i guess you would call yourself a bitcoin maximalist. What do you make of all of this backlash? Well, theres a there are a lot of people dancing on bitcoins grave, but weve seen this time and time again, probably 400 or so times.

Now that bitcoins been declared dead and it just keeps coming back stronger. How many times i think, 400, plus times now 400 yeah theres a website that tracks it bitcoin obituaries so were probably like you know getting to the mid 400s these days, but is that, like an article that says it or a commentator or something? How do you, how do you measure that i think everywhere anywhere its mentioned in uh, mainstream media on news websites and uh its declared dead? It gets logged and then tracked for all posterity, but i i think um bitcoin will will come with this f out of this fine, but uh crypto might be in for some trouble, because that is the the cause of this latest crash. You have um these uh altcoin tokens, beam coins, whatnot theyre, all just imploding, because their house of cards built on top of more houses of cards, and it was inevitable that it would blow up. So it started with the terra, luna ust fiasco and that essentially punched, a 60 billion dollar hole in the crypto marketplace and what were seeing now is the fallout from that. So you see all the lenders, celsius, etc, etc, all having hard times and freezing withdrawals, because they were exposed to these altcoin uh projects right and you dont want to touch that stuff, because that is inherently risky and there is no real value there right. They just minted tokens out of thin air and built more product and services on top of those tokens.

So eventually, if one of the one of the houses of cards falls, then all of the houses fall samson. I think that thats thats, fair youve, seen sort of these implosions tara, usd, maybe whats happening with celsius. Another thing thats adding to this negative sentiment. However, can we look at even the bigger picture like how do we know that this is the cause and not a symptom right? You say that weve been here before with bitcoin, i wouldnt say 400 times its been declared dead. Maybe lets look at the winters right. Theres been a few winters before and bitcoin has emerged stronger. However, the macro environment has been very, very different, bitcoins been around for what about 12 years and its always been easy money right. The fed has been printing. This is a moment where interest rates are going up, theres, something that is fundamentally different this time. So what makes you so confident that bitcoin is going to the same things going to happen when the macro conditions are very, very different right, so bitcoin has to decouple right now. It is tracking a lot of the risk on assets like stocks like tech stocks, particularly and it also tracks with the altcoin market. But i think this is what we refer to as the decoupling. It has to break away from all of these things because bitcoin is not a tech stock. Bitcoin is not a altcoin, and all those alt coins are decentralized in name only or dyno.

So there are centralized protocols run on amazon web services. That pretend to be decentralized and bitcoin is nothing like that. Bitcoin is a decentralized peer to peer network of money and also, i dont believe that we can keep on tracking things um, like monetary policy from the federal reserve, so bitcoin has to decouple from all of these things and then well see bitcoin take off. So we might be in store for a long crypto winter, but i dont believe bitcoin will stay in that mode, just because bitcoins value proposition is needed nowadays, more than ever for exactly some of those reasons. Youre mentioning right were seeing record levels of inflation um. We have 25 countries in the world that are experiencing double digit inflation and a lot of monetary uncertainty. The entire reserve currency system is obliterated because nowadays you can see that you can have your foreign currency reserves at another central bank frozen. So the use case and the necessity of bitcoin is just more apparent and needed more than ever, but all the things that youre saying samsung, you talked about them when bitcoin, when market conditions were better. Why hasnt that decoupling happened, if it doesnt happen now, for all the reasons that you just outlined: inflation at record levels: um: what does? What is the catalyst that separates uh bitcoin from risk assets? I think its just a matter of time so, like i said, were experiencing contagion right now. So you, you have a massive uh hole that was punched into the marketplace, and all of these companies were fractionally reserved, backed and theyre, starting to implode and as they are imploding, they need to liquidate their best assets and, of course, bitcoin is held by all crypto Companies every crypto project that starts up.

They always diversify quickly and go into bitcoin, and you know they theyre free to do that, because bitcoin is an open network and its permissionless, but that does have the add on effect or knock on effect of contagion when they go under. So they need to liquidate their bitcoin and thats. What what is depressing, the bitcoin price, but if you look at bitcoins performance relative to everything else were doing far better than all the altcoin projects. I mean just compare bitcoin to ethereum theres, a btc eth market. Eth is down massively this year and its not sure if itll ever recover to previous levels, it might just keep on dropping, so were seeing indications of that decoupling already. So if bitcoin, as you say ultimately, is not a speculative asset, but its certainly acting as one now, what is it with what weve been through and the huge drop off in price, it certainly has felt like a store of value. Is that what it still is? What you know what is bitcoin at its core samsung? I think bitcoin is just money, money, reimagined or money, 2.0 um. It money evolves on three axes right. You have the store of value first and then you have the medium of exchange and then the unit of account. So if you look on bitcoin on a long enough time horizon on say four years, it does typically always go up, so it rarely drops below the 200 week moving average.

Occasionally, itll dip below like this last weekend was one of those cases, but its not unexpected, because bitcoin is an open network and its accessible 24 7 on by every everyone in every country around the world. So it doesnt stop trading and anybody anywhere can impact the price. So typically, when people want to depress the price they can do so on a weekend when people are away from their trading desk or computer. So these things do happen, but on a long time horizon bitcoin does keep going up and if you zoom out so bitcoins have been around for 13 years now its. It is still a bull market right from inception till today, its just up only so samsung. If bitcoin is money and its time, that will decouple it from other risk assets. When does that happen? I mean i know in the past, and you work with nation states like el salvador, which is using bitcoin as an alternative to fiat money where there they see a like worse inflation, much worse than what were seeing here. How does it when does it start? Acting like money besides time, what drives it there, if not everything that weve already seen um, i think time and more adoption more education. These are the only tools really that that we have right. Um, theres been a massive time and weve seen. Adoption well well see more adoption, so weve we have el salvador and president berkeley made waves when he made bitcoin legal tender and then when he announced that theyre going to work on bitcoin bonds.

But now we have the central african republic too. Uh president todara hes gone with a bitcoin law of his own and im actually planning a visit there later this year. But we already have a delegation of bitcoiners there looking at the economic situation and what we could do to accelerate bitcoin adoption and more education. But um theres other places in the world that bitcoin is much very much needed um and there are going to be more people that understand the fundamentals of money that are going to come out in favor and support bitcoin. So just this morning i saw the president of columbia. He was saying, bitcoin is great, so i think were just on the precipice of more nation state adoption and with that comes greater awareness of bitcoin to the people of those countries. And then we see the decoupling happen. Maybe in the next couple years so and as you do this work then whats your pitch. What do you say to lawmakers to government officials as to the case for why they should be using cryptocurrencies bitcoin in particular, over fiat money? Well, i would just uh explain. First, that theres a big difference between bitcoin and crypto, and i think, a large part of this recent implosion has been a disservice done by people in this industry that conflict the two on a regular basis. So i think brian armstrong of coinbase is one of those really guilty parties that always conflates uh, crypto and bitcoin, but crypto and bitcoin are totally different right.

I would say: theres three buckets, but bitcoin is a cryptocurrency right. Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency but um go ahead, you have you have bitcoin, you have stable coins and then you have crypto right. Okay and michael saylor has said it too, but their their. The crypto market is basically unlicensed securities. So you have 20 000 of these things and more and more being printed every day. So when you lump bitcoin in the same bag as crypto, youre, confusing, either deliberately or because of malice or incompetence, the masses and thats, what harms people? Because they dont understand that bitcoin is not like those other things, but as we move forward and get more adoption thats, why i was saying education is so important because we need to make them understand that bitcoin is a new global monetary network, its a foundation. Sorry, sorry samson, i understand what youre saying, but why do you separate stable coins? Then why is there bitcoin stable coins and then crypto, because stable coins are a mid step towards hyper bitcoinization but theyre not securities either. I dont think so. Theyre theyre more like um, an external exchange balance right and it is on open network. So its kind of a mix between the two things it is centralized because there is an issuer of a stablecoin and theres a company working on a stablecoin, and that seems to be more or less obfuscated for the cryptocurrencies right. They set up a swiss foundation and say were decentralized but stable coins.

They are they own up to it right. They they acknowledge. There is a centralized party that is managing this. There is a company behind this, but it is available on an open network and there are benefits that stable coins bring to the market because they open up financial access to the unbanked and more parts of the world that need access to money. Um. I want to get to someone on youtube: whos asking a question. Kamal says: do you think bitcoin could reach 9k? If the market drops further um, it could always wick down right, because you can have cascading liquidations, you can have people dumping market dumping bitcoin in a panic but itll wick back up. I dont think um well stay below the 200 week moving average. I think thats about 21 22. 000.. I think well be back over that very shortly and weve seen that rebound happen over this weekend, but its typically in times of low liquidity and when thing people do not so smart things that bitcoin wicks down and goes and touches like really crazy lows like 9k Or whatever, but um that wont last when you, when you talk about um, luna and tara, usd sort of having that contagion effect across all of cryptocurrencies, do you think that theyre were in for a long period of this? How many more players can be flush out? You mentioned brian armstrong. You dont like what hes saying about cryptos and conflating bitcoin with crypto, obviously were watching celsius right now, um.

What would you tell people in terms of where its safe to keep their bitcoin if the rest of the space is undergoing so much turbulence? Well, the safest thing you can do is to take possession of your own coins. So not your keys, not your coins. You should keep them on a hardware wallet, even keeping them on your phone is better than keeping them on your phone in a non custodial. Wallet is better than keeping them on exchange and definitely lending on these lending platforms is not a good idea, because you dont know what theyre doing you dont know how much altcoin exposure they have right. So all of these platforms that had problems have problems because they they touch crypto or they touch altcoins or you know the other word that im not supposed to say on air. But you know if you have exposure to those things, theres a massive amount of risk. So if you do want to lend, i would say, use any platform that does peer to peer lending, so theres a platform called huddle huddle where you can do peer to peer lending. I know that bifinx does peer to peer lending and a number of other platforms too. But at least there youre lending to someone else and there is typically more collateral, posted um, so theres a higher loan to value, but its less risky than say going to celsius or whatever, because theyre trying to get a very high return higher than what theyre offering You because they need to make money as well and when they need to do that theyre going to take risks.

Can you explain that? How does peer to peer lending work? It would just be direct lending, so you would want to take out um. Some lets say you want some dollars and then i would lend to you on the platform, so the platforms are just match making us, but the the contract is between you and me. So who decides on the interest? Um, the lender would uh post a rate or if the borrower can also post an offer too like i want to borrow at this rate, so its really just a peer to peer exploration and determination of the right rate. But i believe the future has to be peer to peer, because when you go to these centralized services, they just add a massive amount of risk and uncertainty, but the biggest lenders arent they institutions. Can they use this method? Would they or explain to me how that works, how you can make up the same volume um? I think you could do that with uh institutions too. You just need a platform that goes that route. I dont think theres anything that serves uh massive institutions that want to borrow hundreds of millions of dollars period here yet, but i think that will come and its probably better when that does come so samsung. Finally, i just want to get to your prediction. I know if a few months back when we spoke um, you were predicting. You and michael saylor were predicting that bitcoin would get to a hundred thousand.

You come back on and talk its gone, the other way, but you are still holding that outlook and you think that bitcoin can get back to 100 000 by the end of this year. Yeah so ive updated my prediction to end of this year, um and i think its inevitable that bitcoin will reach a hundred thousand its just a question of when, but all the fundamentals of bitcoin havent changed the demand. The need for bitcoin hasnt changed the number of nation states adopting bitcoin hasnt changed um michael saylor, buying bitcoin isnt, changing hes, going to keep on buying at these prices and even at all time highs. So everything is continuing as planned and in less than two years. Well, have a quantitative, hardening or the halving so where bitcoin supply is cut in half from 6.25 to 3.125, so its only going to get more scarce and more valuable and the demand is only going to keep going up. Im. Not sure, though, that youve given us sort of a clear answer on what gets it there youve said time and adoption, but bitcoin again, im just trying to understand. Bitcoin has had a dozen years. Youve had some adoption, if not now when and why. Well, it takes time um money, doesnt, just uh appear instantly unless its fiat currencies that are printed and mandated so bitcoin is organic, grassroots money and if you look at and out look for an analogy to that, i think the closest thing you have is gold and Gold has thousands of years of history as money, so compared thousands of years to 13 years, and you can see that were still very, very early on in the cycle.

Well, samsung! Thanks for being with us, we appreciate you coming on and breaking it down, um for us, and i hope youll come back and talk to us again well see what happens um but certainly been a volatile and exciting few weeks in crypto or bitcoin for you ill. I shouldnt confuse them for you right. Yes, thank you very much. Okay. Thank you. Simpson. Well, talk to you again soon and thank you.