Managing director welcome jody so obviously were seeing again bitcoin in that 20 000 range again, when you look at whats happening with equity markets and what youre seeing with crypto. What stands out to you, what stands out to me is how much the crypto bear market is. Looking like the stressors that we saw in the equity markets back in the 80s – and you know, as we just heard – the inflation and rising rates and possible stagflation um again, this is the same story and the demand really didnt pick up until the options in futures Markets were developed to help the equity investors manage the risk and it was the same story for the fixed income as the rate skyrocketed so now were seeing incentives to motivate crypto trading in the downturn, but the real risk management tools and derivatives markets, arent developed enough. So theres a couple things that we need to be aware of im curious what you think of a co founder of absolute strategy. Research said that, based on similar past cycles, bitcoin could go as low as 13 000. How low do you think it can and will go? I dont know whether i agree with that ive been looking at the history and unfortunately in crypto markets and in bitcoin theres, not as much history as wed like to go off of in order to tell again im looking at macroeconomic environment and derivatives markets that are Echoing the 80s and the data only goes back to 2014 uh on bitcoin that we have in our index.

That was the first ever launch. So you know, if you look at the historical data, yeah weve got about a 73 draw down now uh and i think theres more upside than there is downside, and i want to talk about the the makeup of investors in this space. Obviously, now versus when, when crypto was first picking up talk about the role of institutional investors and how theyre looking at crypto right now, if the institutional investors need more regulatory clarity, they need deeper derivatives markets. I cant stress this point enough uh. We need that in order to manage the risk and we need to have deep liquidity across the derivatives markets and across coins beyond bitcoin. So right now the market looks a lot like. Maybe the dow did in the 1800s, where youve got these huge concentrations and just a few assets, and you know we need. We need to see that. But the institutional adoption is moving forward. Theyre interested and theyre waiting on the sidelines to put money to work and were seeing some influence, as i think many institutions are viewing this as a buying opportunity and the big news that binance u.s has eliminated spot trading fees, whats the implication for the rest of The industry yeah, i think that they want to increase the volume, but i think the traders should be aware of getting more active, despite the lower trading costs really for three main reasons: one its easier to manipulate the market when theres, no fees, actually one of the Most common criteria for exchange eligibility in crypto indexing is that the exchange must charge fees and thats because its harder to manipulate the market when you have to pay to trade um second, is someone is still making money, even when trading fees are waived.

So the trading firm still sees the flows and data and straight around the book. The lower fees can lead to more flow, more room to cross orders and potentially trade against clients, which may undermine the trust in the market and for crypto thats a big deal and then last is that theres a ton of evidence that shows more the more that Retail investors, trade, the worse their performance, tends to be, since they are relatively less informed and trade on the noise. But unfortunately, since most investors are overconfident, they think they will beat the average, which of course, is impossible for most to beat the average by the math of it. Yeah that optimism not paying off for a lot of people as weve seen. I just quickly want to ask you about ftx becoming a lender to block five. They gave them a 250 million dollar credit facility. There talk about whats happening in that space, both the dangers of. Perhaps when you have already crypto platforms, relying on other crypto platforms for finance and what that means for consolidation in this space, i think that this move basically says in the crypto community that we need to support each other to keep the business going, and this highlights The immature structure of crypto with the move to pay to keep trading partners, but for now it seems that the industry does have sam venkman freed as the guaranteed fund or in other words hes, acting as a credit backstop.

But since theres no guarantee, we do have to move um to evolve structurally, and there needs to be development to move towards the guaranteed fund, similar to like how the exchangers have with banks where they can move positions between the banks. Until there is a need to dip into that guaranteed fund, we do thank you for your insight, jody gunsberg there coindesk indices, managing director.