This is for us a big chunk of the total crypto market cap thats, a commodity according to existing designations of what bitcoin and ethereum is in the marketplace. Why arent we running this thing? Commodities our commodities are in our name so thats the latest from acting cftc chair in the senate uh hearing today interesting because we keep hearing about all the ways that crypto might be regulated in dc and the cftc clearly wants to handle in all that. So, im going to toss this straight to jen, because jen is looking at the u.s context from canada and i think its always interesting to get that outsiders perspective jen, whats, going on here whats this brewing turf war, all about as far as you can tell. I think the brewing i just think regulators, they move so slow in some respect and so fast in in others, and i think, before we even get into the turf war. We need to just define what crypto is, how its classified and the criteria that goes into that classification, and then we can just. We can easily determine whos going to regulate it. I feel like weve jumped over so many, so many steps and im saying we like im in the us of a but you the u.s, has jumped over so many steps when it comes when it comes to to this story. I just think its kind of ridiculous. I think we need to take a few steps backwards, define whats actually going on, make sure everyone understands crypto and then and then it will be easier to identify who the crypto cops can be.

But will i see you smirking up there so ill thumbs up youre, smirking? Okay, fine, fine! No! I think the cftc is right in some regards, but the sec does have a place. If you take the approach that there should be regulators in the spaces, all which i know naomi would take preference with, but i will say that it makes sense for the cftc to be involved, because a lot of these assets are commodities in a sense. Bitcoin is supposed to be like a currency. Ethereum is supposed to be gas for the blockchain kind of like a digital oil of sorts, at least thats. What it was originally intended for a lot of these other cryptocurrencies tout themselves as just payments on a network. Theyre used to fuel the network, its not just a a currency or its, not just a security, so theres a huge difference between those two things: the security promises, investment returns and its kind of like you know you, you have ownership of part of a company. You dont have that with a lot of these tokens, you dont have ownership of a part of a company with shibuyanu you just dont. You have a part of a great joke, but you dont have anything else. Besides that, it does make sense for the sec to be involved in some ways. There are things like security tokens out there, and there are some projects that, frankly, are just money, grabs for teams and they kind of operate as uh beam stocks for for firms.

So it makes sense to have both sides being there im just interested to see how this turf war plays out going forward, because i think its going to be more fireworks going forward than less zach will give it to you. I think its really complicated – i mean, like you know you talk about like securities as being you know, guaranteeing future earnings right, like like proof of stake as a concept right in which you stake tokens to a network, and you earn rewards for doing so. Um these things dont fit neatly into existing understandings of how various investment products should be regulated. I think thats. Why were seeing this tug of war being like wait a minute? Well, you know, for this part of the market yeah its sort of like gold cfpc like we can do that and then for this part of the market that were still trying to figure out. It is kind of like securities. It may not be about owning a company per se, but it does resemble securities in some key feat. Some key features so its interesting to see this battle keep playing out and um. You know as the market cap of the total as the total crypto market cap gets bigger and bigger these questions, and these fights are going to get louder and louder and i think, were starting to see that, especially when it comes to the alphabet soup, agencies in Dc itself, um naomi, i saw your hand up.

We got to get you on this one. Just i want to ask you a question actually just like just follow something you were saying before um so youre talking about, and will you were talking about this as well about like these dows and how you own part of a company and all of this stuff, Like it, you know, comments like this from the cftc really make me miss bran quintenz, who was a former cftc commissioner, who spoke extensively about d5 and how it shouldnt be regulated, because the whole idea of cfdc coming into something like this is like. When you have a central entity and theyre, somewhat opaque and youre, relying on them for self disclosure, uh self, transparent self self reporting on all of these things and youve got to some have some sort of accountability and um. You know licenses or whatever around all of that to make sure its all above board but defy who we protecting ourselves from. There is no central company on these things. You know theyre decentralized projects that anyone can contribute to, and so that risk is like kind of on the individual and thats. What brian quintenza said. Historically, that its on you know individual responsibility to be looking into this and cftc actually has no role, and you know this whole thing it made me laugh in a kind of sad bitter kind of way when i was reading this because its like hes saying things Like oh, he acknowledged that regulating crypto would be a departure from the agencys historic role as a commodities regulator, but he said the sector is important enough, that the shift would be warranted.

Its like its like hes saying like oh okay, i mean i would be okay with being the emperor of the world. I i think that its important enough that im willing to step up to the plate and rule everything i know its a burden on me but im willing to take the job and control all the things like its such a blatant power grab and its kind of Guys, like couched in this idea of like well, you know, were willing to step into the role because its so critically important, and he says specifically, i think its critically important – to have a primary cop on the beat, and certainly the cftc is prepared to do that. If the committee so wishes its just like such an understated way of of saying like yes, they are trying to get more power over this giant burgeoning industry. That is like trillions and trillions of dollars, uh large, so its just like i dont know it just seemed ridiculous to me, like you guys, should get out of crypto like this isnt your world, but zack im gon na throw this to you all right. One cftc official did get out of uh. Well, no, he got into crypto. You mentioned quintens right hes, with andreessen horowitz now hes on the a16 cc, hes ramping up its locking efforts in dc itself. So this is my question. Just in purely reductionist terms, lets speculate is this bullish for crypto regulation or bearish if the cfdc were to take a stronger role relative to the sec im, putting that to you naomi and then well shut it down thats such a good question, because any time that The government is focused on attacking each other.

It means that theyre spending less energy attacking all of the actual people building value in the world. So i kind of encourage that um, but at the same time it isnt uncommon for these turf wars to just continue and for these agencies to just say: well, its always been my jurisdiction. Well, its also always been my jurisdiction, so you just end up getting like double jurisdiction right, so i mean i wouldnt put past. The government to just you know, be coming down hard on crypto from all angles, while they figure out this turf war, which may not be good. I think this is bullish for defy for sure, because at the end of the day, theres no central entity for them to go after as much as they like to spout the rhetoric about how theyre going to start trying. There really is, you know, um. There is really no central entity in a lot of these things and code should be protected by free speech. Uh laws so well see what how that plays out. Definitely bullish for d5.