Given that we nicely comfortably managed to chug along at least get closer to seventeen thousand five k. Uh in trade yesterday and, of course, a bigger recovery for the broader end of the markets. But that said, while the market texture has been volatile, so has been the news around crypto and close on the heels weve heard that an inter ministerial committee recommendations have come out in cryptocurrencies and uh. The bill on cryptos is going to be taken up in the winter session of parliament and not just that. The committee has recommended that all private cryptocurrencies be banned in india and any activity connected with cryptocurrencies be criminalized through law. So lets take this discussion forward. We have with us two gentlemen uh nishal shetty, who is the founder and ceo at wazirex, and i also have with me siddharth sugani, the founder and ceo at crebaco, joining in on the show right now, gentlemen, good morning good to have you on the show. Perhaps this was the topic of discussion on all dinner tables and morning, coffee tables as well this morning, but to that, if i could begin the discussion with you uh, would you say that this is a sensible move hi good morning um i dont know i mean This uh exact statement was there in the february 2021 um. You know uh circular in the lok sabha uh, then the bill wasnt uh, tabled um. But, however, this time uh in the last eight ten days, there have been a lot of activity in the government related to crypto and uh, and the lok sabha circular, which came in yesterday, had the same uh paragraph taken from the feb 2021 bill.

Uh to now. So i dont see this as a clear indication of any banning or anything. I i believe, uh. We are still looking at regulations, positive regulations, uh because we are, we are, i think, reading too much between the lines, uh and then deriving uh. You know uh, i dont know i mean theyre theyre, saying private crypto currencies right, but uh as far as i understand and uh. We have proposed to the government earlier as well that cryptos should be treated as assets, commodities and not currencies, because private currencies are anyways banned in india and again bitcoin is not private. It is decentralized not issued by any sovereign, individual or company. It is in the internet, michelle, if i could, you know, take that point forward with you. What, as we understand so far, the bill proposes is that there is going to be an official digital currency which is going to be issued by the central bank. This uh reserve bank itself, but what happens to the cryptos which are already out there in circulation yeah, i think uh see. I think the first most important thing is that uh, when we, when we think about crypto, they can be classified into various categories and uh currency happens to be one of those categories which uh, i think, as an industry. Also. We believe that it should be under the domain of the government, but there are other categories like assets and utilities which are absolutely needed: uh, for example, to run a smart contract code on ethereum.

You need ether, you cant, do it without it and uh, and you know we dont believe that there will be curves on those utility use cases or the asset use cases um. Having said that in in, i think you should see this move as a progress of the whole regulatory process for crypto in india and uh. I think uh were all glad that india has taken a step ahead towards discussing and uh deliberating on what is the right way to regulate crypto. Now we have to wait and watch what the contents of the build will be. What uh? What are the definitions? Uh? Various definitions uh because the description hasnt changed uh at all from uh. What we last saw in feb 2021, so uh its very hard to save uh. You know what direction this would be, but i think uh, having seen the deliberations weve had with the lawmakers in the last uh uh few weeks and uh. You know the the kind of uh growth that this market has seen. We have over 15 to 20 million people in india today holding four to five billion dollar worth of crypto assets. I think thats, a massive market and the global market is over 3 trillion dollars. So we we have a large market out there to capture as a nation. I i dont believe that well be going for a complete ban. I think there will be uh. You know, i would say, stoppages on the payment use cases which, as an industry where weve always been uh, okay with uh, but i think the the the whole uh asset and uh utility use cases are something that uh.

You know india has to participate because its a new technology and if we dont do it uh the rest of the world is already ahead and uh. We will not be able to catch up later, so i think uh. We have to wait and watch before we react on um. You know going in a certain direction of a pan or something good morning. This is nantara thanks for joining us um. Building on that point forward, weve seen a lot of activity right in the last couple of days. The prime minister himself shared a meeting. I remember two weekends ago when it came to cryptos uh. We saw a parliamentary standing committee also summoning stakeholders. I believe his co founder was also part of that meeting, and then the reserve bank of indias governor has written to the government against cryptos and why they shouldnt be allowed that for me, the last one basically makes me feel that yes, no ban is coming. Do you think cryptos could actually be seen as an asset? They may not allow it as a currency. You may not be able to buy a tesla or a car or a cup of coffee etc with it, but it could be used as an asset and basically also maybe ban advertising or tight regulation. Could that be the school of thought? Absolutely in fact, i think, uh, if you even see the last few weeks of media reports, theres always been talk of a middle part and i think thats the right way to go about it.

We can all move in. You know two extremes which is one is uh: do not regulate at all, let it evolve and see what happens uh, the other extreme is do not let it uh exist at all now theres a middle path which works out. Well, where you know you can curb all the bad activities around the sector, the negative use cases that we are all worried about and the threat to the payment ecosystem in the country – and this has been done in a few countries. I think malaysia or indonesia. One of the country has actually prohibited the use of crypto as a payment, but they have uh uh allowed the use of crypto for trading where you use it, you buy it as an asset or for using it as utilities on the blockchains. So i think there is a path ahead and the rest of the world is also trying to go in that direction, which is the middle part, which is why we dont hear of a complete ban in countries like the us european union anywhere in the world. Except for a few small nations, so i think india will definitely take that path. Uh its just a matter of time – and you know how we deliberate on all of these issues and how we come to a common uh conclusion as a nation and the the good part is. The industry has now been uh. You know involved and we are being invited for discussions and, i think, still very early stages, but at least that process has begun, which is a very positive outcome for uh the crypto industry in india in general.

I thought in the description, which is maybe an old one. They have said that we cannot. We have to be supportive of your innovation right and i would like to inform our viewers that during covert 19, we did see state governments, for example, embrace blockchains. The state of maharashtra, for example, gave out a contract when it came to covet certificates and every blockchain. Just to be just to be self sufficient usually needs a token uh so that coming to you now um, what did have the government concerned was the over promising by the crypto stakeholders um. You know, which was seen by the government. Also are they being duped? The youth, if you look at the price action, the kind of things that are happening in the metaverse in that sense, what could could it be that um whatevers happened has happened, allow it to go on, but then attacks will also have to come. Yes, so um you know uh, we are. We are in a bull market of uh crypto, so every two or three years uh there is uh upside in the entire uh crypto market and uh. Currently we are going through that. So what has happened is uh in the last uh six, eight months, a new all new players who are coming into this case. They are uh, you know, coming out with coins, mean coins, shebas and all these guys right. So these are very speculative assets. However, bitcoin and ethereum they are very uh, like you know, you can consider them as blue chips or uh.

You know much more stable than these mean coins, so government has its their own concerns. They dont want the youth to uh, be victims of these speculative uh, because they they go up and down by 30 40 in a day right, and there was even a rock hole of uh squid game, a coin. A lot of people invested in it and they lost everything in a days time. So government has its concerns. They want to protect its populace right and uh. The only way they can do it is probably regulate the local exchanges educate the the uh. You know the the investors, but banning is not even an option, because this is something which exists in the internet. Uh. Another thing is uh: they have concerns of capital outflow, a lot of people, they buy crypto here and they send it out of the country using uh. You know withdrawal features and a lot of exchanges um, so they they. I mean there are mechanisms. If the government regulates the space, they can monitor the capital outflow, but currently they are not doing it. Hence they are concerned right, but if uh like like even in last monday, when the interactions were there with the with the industry, we proposed that you know uh sebi can regulate the exchanges. Rbi can be the one which monitors the inwards and outwards of uh of crypto in india and uh. You know we can even think of setting up a new uh regulatory authority uh which uh, which comprises of crypto exports and uh.

You know solutions which are needed to monitor crypto in india but uh banning it will. India has a lot to lose if we ban uh, even in the early 90s, the you know the the tech developers they moved to silicon valley, because the i.t regulation came in really late and i think it is a great new opportunity for india. If we ban it now, all the talent will a more than capital outflow. We should be concerned of talent outflow right, they will all move abroad and we wont get anything. Problems are plenty lets see what comes out of this uh but great to have you both on the show today. Thank you so much nishal in siddharth for taking the time out. Thank you.